Dan Head is the brand new CEO of Phrasee, the AI-based digital marketing company. One of the first things on his to-do list: a sit down with Politely Pushy.
Dan tells Eric why he took the job, what his role as CEO will be, and the priorities he’ll be focusing on. He also explains where he thinks the future is for brands and AI companies alike, along with some of the obstacles that still exist despite generative AI going mainstream in the past year.
Phrasee has been around a lot longer than ChatGPT, and Dan gives us his take for what makes his new company uniquely different from everything else on the market.
Read podcast transcript
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welcome to Politely Pushy i’m your host
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as always Eric Chemi Eric Chemi
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politely Pushy politely Pushy i’m Eric
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Chemi and this is Politely Pushy welcome
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to Politely Pushy i’m your host Eric
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Chemi today we are talking about AI of
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course right ai is the only thing that
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people seem to be talking about these
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days and today I’m with Kyle and
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Courtney Bosear employees who are in
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charge of the Bosear AI initiatives AI
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University AI programming everything AI
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that’s happening here at Bosear so you
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know Courtney I’ll start with you every
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headline I read right now is that AI is
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going to eliminate everybody’s jobs
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including all the people that work in
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places like this well what is your take
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on that
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i definitely don’t think it’s
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eliminating our jobs but I am going to
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sound like a broken record because all
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the other CEOs are saying the same thing
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it It’s going to make us more productive
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it’s going to make us more efficient
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there’s ways to create our outputs and
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and think creatively and and do our
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deliverables in a way that we’ve never
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been able to do before and it doesn’t
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eliminate our jobs we still very much
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need a human touch within communication
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we speak about emotion um and end
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product and and what that looks like and
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the synergy that exists within it you
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can’t remove us but we can be more
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productive
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you can’t remove us yet right right kyle
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what you’re you’re on the cutting edge
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what do you see because I feel like a
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lot of AI now it can do emotion it can
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do reasoning it can do it can do so many
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things that we would have thought needed
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a human to do no I think that’s true and
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I was we were Courtney and I were having
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this discussion earlier that yes with
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each new model and each new progression
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there’s always things that are happening
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we’re like “Wow that’s different that’s
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new that’s exciting.” But at the end of
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the day you know especially in places
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like a PR agency I think people are
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paying for expertise and a lot of people
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can experiment with you know different
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models and different prompts and things
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and get really good outputs but at the
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end of the day the application and
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figuring out how to really package it up
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in a way that not only makes sense to
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the end user but media there there’s a
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skill that isn’t quite at the AI level
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and I won’t say that we’ll never get
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there but we’re not there yet so so what
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are some of the initiatives that you two
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are working on internally is it about
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educating employees is it about you know
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showing them the right tools is it some
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a AI ethics what exactly is the role of
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of leading these Bosespar AI initiatives
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feel free to jump in you two can
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disagree with each other and argue with
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each other don’t wait for me to ask you
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guys can just jump right in and chat
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with each other i would say right now
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we’re creating what I like to refer to
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as the AI playground i think a lot of
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people are very fearful about AI to a
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point where they’re scared to even use
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it dabble in it we hear about you know
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data concerns and and we as a PR firm
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have NDAs and you know there’s a lot
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from the journalist side about
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plagiarism and you know not giving
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commentary that’s humanmade um so
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there’s a lot of concerns and scary
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things attached to AI and it’s created a
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world where people are not adopting it
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as fast as you would expect considering
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it does have incredible power in
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speeding things up and we’re in a world
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where you know we’re incredibly busy and
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and would love to be able to power
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through some of our workload smarter but
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faster um so AI University is a lot
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about creating guard rails and doing
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some handholding but more so empowering
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employees to find ways for them to
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create a better workday for themselves
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with the AI tool that they prefer oh
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it’s interesting and I’ll let K jump in
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too like so you’re telling me actually
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people aren’t using it enough i would
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have thought you might have said the
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other the opposite which is people are
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using it too much you’re actually saying
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no no they need to use it more
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yeah we actually deployed a survey
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internally throughout the agency just to
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confirm you know what exactly is going
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on with AI is it a world where people
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are playing with a lot of different
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tools are they using one and sticking to
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it are they not using it at all um and
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we do find a couple of trends did show
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up one of which was people do find the
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one tool that they like and they kind of
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stick with it they don’t give themselves
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to play with other options out there um
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or use new LLM systems to see what the
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results look like uh but yes
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particularly from younger employees I
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think there is still a level of
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questions as to how to use it
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responsibly to a point where they’re
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slower to use it
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and I want to just add to that I think
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another component to this too is the
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client side of things as Courtney was
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saying um not only are we trying trying
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to create guard rails for what works for
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us internally but also letting clients
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know we don’t want to say we’re not
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using it and then get caught and say
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like “Oh yes you did because this is
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why.” We want to be very transparent and
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and and intentional in saying “Yes we do
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use it in these ways for this reason
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this is how this is how your information
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is safe.” and also empower our clients
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to use it in ways that are smart and
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practical for the media because the
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media isn’t quite caught up with the AI
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jargon or how to implement you know AI
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written content we’re still figuring all
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that out but to be able to utilize it in
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a way that they’re getting the most PR
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impact for their money and their
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contract length they want to see how can
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I utilize the tool as well to enhance
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that experience so it really is like a
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two-fold situation that we’re trying to
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discover and unfold together so I see
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the issue with clients
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isn’t we’re concerned that you’re using
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AI because we want you to be more
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creative it’s we’re concerned you’re
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using AI because we don’t want our
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information now being put into a public
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system is that really what the big issue
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is i think so i think that’s more so
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what I hear from clients than other than
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it’s not necessarily a creative
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challenge more so than a security and
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safety concern so so what are the let’s
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say basic let’s say a new employee
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starts tomorrow what are you telling
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them hey here’s the three things that
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you definitely should be using AI for
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and what are the three things that we
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don’t want you to use it for
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we don’t want you to use AI in the sense
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of inputting any documentation from a
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client that is not for external
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consumption especially within our
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industry there’s a lot of internalized
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decks there’s a lot of company
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information that’s not yet public
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anything of that nature is an absolute
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red flag we do not want that within an
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AI model funding valuations things of
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that nature we just can’t risk it uh so
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that’s a pretty blanketed no um but
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things that they should be using it for
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i like to guide people to using AI as an
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assistant to allow you to
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create more unique deliverables or think
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outside of the box um I find chatbt
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Claude they are really practical not
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just in speeding things up while that’s
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a great thing it almost creates a little
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buddy especially within a remote world
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someone who can almost think a little
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bit different from you so that you can
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be a little bit more on your toes about
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how you’re creating things what the end
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product looks like so it’s not so cookie
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cutter um we have to be really
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innovative and and different when we
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approach media and I do I think chat is
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a really great way to get you thinking
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outside of your standard thought
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processes
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yeah I know and I will say one of my
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favorite additional prompts once I’ve
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already got a piece of work that I like
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or a pitch that I prefer or an approach
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with a journalist that I think will work
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i always like to flip it around and then
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and say “Okay well now I want you to
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think like this journalist at this
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outlet who covers this topic and poke
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holes in this entire situation make it
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all question everything and more often
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than not I’ll get really strong results
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of hey here’s where the pain points are
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here’s what you’re not answering or
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here’s where it’s being overlabored and
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it just helps me streamline from a
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perspective that I’m aware of but am not
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in dayto-day
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I like that I like that approach hey be
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this reporter be this journalist and and
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basically give me the rejection now
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before I actually send the email pitch
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later and officially get the rejection
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you might as well let’s practice it now
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so I can avoid those pitfalls and and
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try to either answer them in advance or
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maybe just don’t even pitch that person
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in the first place like I I like that
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way of of taking on these
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roles how much how much are we spending
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on AI internally is everyone just doing
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like the $20 a month you know little
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chat sheet BT+ or are we getting some
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corporate like what what is the the
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situation right now that’s such an
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interesting question Eric
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um so currently there’s no there’s no
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internal system in place where the
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company is funding everyone to have an
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AI assistant or buddy or however we want
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we want to frame that however we are
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currently actively looking for and
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researching AI specific tools
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particularly for teams that are geared
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for the PR space um so harder to find
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but they are starting to trickle out um
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and there are many benefits to those and
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the goal I think for the agency I don’t
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want to speak for people above me but I
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the goal is to hopefully find something
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that works for everyone but allows us to
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be collaborative with our AI use as a
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team so that we’re not using our
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individual chat GPTs and clouds in a way
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that is siloed from everything else the
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the company is doing oh so I see so like
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if you if the three of us were each
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doing something it should at least know
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about it like in some in some corporate
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system where it’s aggregating all of our
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individual work and and that smartness
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improves over time is that is that the
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idea yes one thing we get asked about
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quite frequently is the concept of a
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prompt library you know Chat GBT or any
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other system it it only gives you as
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good as what you can question it and so
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putting together just a really short
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sentence that’s missing a lot of details
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is is not going to get you the output
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you’re looking for because there is some
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level of repetition to what we’re doing
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on the day-to-day it would behoove us to
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eventually have a prompt library if you
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will where you know you could just kind
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of swap in and out some details but
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ultimately it gives you a really good
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in-depth thoughtful response when it
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comes to survey questions or pitch
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writing or you know award research
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things of that nature things that are
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really duplicative for us that’s a
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that’s a good point but then you know
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it’s funny a lot of times you can use
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the AI to give you the prompts right now
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it’s like hey I don’t have prompts make
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me a prompt library and then boom it
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does that for you so yeah I love kind of
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flipping
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AI and so there have been times where I
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put it into a position where it’s asking
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me questions rather than me asking it
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questions oh really how do you So how do
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you do that what are you saying to to
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set that up so I will similar to the
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role playing concept if I have a a piece
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of um let’s say a press release or a
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pitch I can put that into my chatbt and
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say you know if I were doing a live
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interview with such and such reporter
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what are they going to be asking me and
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then it’ll you know spit out a couple of
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questions i would give it a response as
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if I’m the the key spokes person and I
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really just get a better sense of what’s
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the forward thinking conversation at
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play here that way we can get ahead of
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those conversations and create talking
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points create a briefing document that’s
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more specific and cater to the you know
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conversation that we’re going to have
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things of that nature but it’s it’s a
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slight twist on AI that people don’t
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necessarily think of i like that i like
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that yeah make them the one asking the
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questions as opposed as opposed to us
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you mentioned different tools you
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mentioned how some people they’ll get
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stuck on one tool and they won’t try the
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others what tools are the two of you
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experimenting with right now have do you
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feel like you’ve tried all of them i
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mean I guess no one has tried all
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there’s so many different niche ones but
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but what are the tools that you feel
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like you’ve spent the most time with
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what are the ones that you feel like you
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still need to get to and then and then
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I’m curious how would you rank them
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right like hey this was really good at
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something but this was really bad i’m
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curious your adventures in this space oh
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Kyle I haven’t heard from him in a while
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okay i will say I have too um I like
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chat GPT because it’s kind of where I
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started it’s where a lot of people
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started but also I’m a huge Perplexity
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fan um so what I find myself doing I
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think Perplexity is much better at data
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and data points and stronger research
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information so typically I will if I’m
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researching start with perplexity take
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those data points or those links or
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whatever it feeds me that I find to be
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relevant and actually plug that back
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into chat GPT and say here’s the data
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that I have or that I want to use please
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like let’s make this more creative
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depending on the task whatever it is the
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prompt library but I use perplexity for
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data mining and then chatpc for more of
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the creative flow if you will
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00:13:26,399 –> 00:13:31,440
that’s actually my exact answer really
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and I I think a lot of people you know
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when we did kind of first iterations of
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AI University throughout the agency many
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did uncover that perplexity was
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significantly better with the research
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function um people also liked the voice
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function within Perplexity uh but
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chatbt it stole everyone’s heart it was
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the the first one it was the app that
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people downloaded it was the interface
365
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people just got really used to so I find
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it’s just kind of what people gravitate
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towards you you find yourself pulling
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00:14:01,440 –> 00:14:06,079
your pulling up chatbt more than
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anything else um but I do think chatbt
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is very creative
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um really good with more of the one
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pagers and the strategy documents and
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also the more you use it the more it
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understands you the more it understands
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what you’re looking for and so you know
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it’s a self-fulfilling prophecy you know
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00:14:21,680 –> 00:14:27,360
because I’m using ChachiBT more than
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anything else it’s it’s over time
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becoming the best version for me right
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00:14:29,920 –> 00:14:36,399
right what about anyone using Grock
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haven’t touched it won’t touch it but
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that’s that’s a different cover won’t
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touch it i find you know for some
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00:14:40,000 –> 00:14:44,560
certain research projects I find it’s
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its thinking can be better than chat GPT
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there were some scenarios because I
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would do both um what about what about
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Gemini from Google
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i’ve dabbled in Gemini but I’ve never
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loved it it was it was a short short
391
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fling with I will agree with that but I
392
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will say if you live in Google Drive
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like we do they’re starting to really
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implement Gemini in Google Drive so
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depending on how that relationship
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builds itself out to with my day-to-day
397
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activities and behavior I could see
398
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myself using it more if through Google
399
00:15:19,600 –> 00:15:23,920
Drive and Sheets and whatever else it
400
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becomes more intuitive with the data
401
00:15:23,920 –> 00:15:29,839
that we already are using then who knows
402
00:15:26,720 –> 00:15:31,760
but currently it’s not my favorite it it
403
00:15:29,839 –> 00:15:33,680
um it’s not as great I think as the
404
00:15:31,760 –> 00:15:36,480
other ones but I find it if you go into
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00:15:33,680 –> 00:15:39,120
notebook LM Yeah and you can create a
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00:15:36,480 –> 00:15:40,959
podcast which I find fascinating
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00:15:39,120 –> 00:15:43,279
that’s crazy and you can you know you
408
00:15:40,959 –> 00:15:45,680
can start to um you can start to ask
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00:15:43,279 –> 00:15:47,360
questions of those podcast hosts they’ll
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00:15:45,680 –> 00:15:48,639
hear your question stop what they’re
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00:15:47,360 –> 00:15:51,519
talking about and then start interacting
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with you so and I’m sure you know it’s
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00:15:51,519 –> 00:15:54,800
not exactly Gemini but it’ll all get
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00:15:53,199 –> 00:15:56,480
related at some point you know on some
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00:15:54,800 –> 00:15:58,800
back end it’s similar like you said
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00:15:56,480 –> 00:16:00,560
Google Drive Microsoft Copilot i find
417
00:15:58,800 –> 00:16:02,560
that that starts to pop up everywhere if
418
00:16:00,560 –> 00:16:04,399
I’m in an Edge browser I’m doing Office
419
00:16:02,560 –> 00:16:06,160
that starts to pop up that can be
420
00:16:04,399 –> 00:16:09,279
helpful sometimes i don’t know if if you
421
00:16:06,160 –> 00:16:12,720
two have used much of that
422
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no no okay and then Claude I feel like a
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00:16:12,720 –> 00:16:16,959
lot of people love Claude a lot of
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00:16:15,120 –> 00:16:19,839
people love Claude that’s the the tech
425
00:16:16,959 –> 00:16:21,519
darling for sure um I personally don’t
426
00:16:19,839 –> 00:16:24,399
know anyone at the agency who really
427
00:16:21,519 –> 00:16:28,800
stuck with Claude in any way but I do
428
00:16:24,399 –> 00:16:30,240
think I think Curtis is a huge Claude
429
00:16:28,800 –> 00:16:32,000
yeah
430
00:16:30,240 –> 00:16:34,160
but one one thing I would like to point
431
00:16:32,000 –> 00:16:36,160
out which I think is interesting and and
432
00:16:34,160 –> 00:16:37,759
Kyle can probably elaborate more but one
433
00:16:36,160 –> 00:16:41,279
of the products we were test running to
434
00:16:37,759 –> 00:16:43,440
me is kind of more so the future of AI
435
00:16:41,279 –> 00:16:46,720
which is one system that gives you
436
00:16:43,440 –> 00:16:48,800
access to all of these LLMs so you feed
437
00:16:46,720 –> 00:16:50,720
in your one question and then you can
438
00:16:48,800 –> 00:16:52,880
toggle between what the cloud response
439
00:16:50,720 –> 00:16:55,839
is what the perplexity response is what
440
00:16:52,880 –> 00:16:58,399
the chatbt response is so that you have
441
00:16:55,839 –> 00:17:01,199
more of an easy navigation to you know
442
00:16:58,399 –> 00:17:03,920
all the var variables that exist which I
443
00:17:01,199 –> 00:17:05,520
think we’ll see a lot more often as new
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00:17:03,920 –> 00:17:07,120
products come out there’s a company I
445
00:17:05,520 –> 00:17:10,799
just heard about yesterday it’s called
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Profound and their idea is getting your
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brand featured in the AI responses so
448
00:17:14,000 –> 00:17:17,760
you know before it was like Google SEO
449
00:17:15,839 –> 00:17:20,240
so now it’s like oh when someone asks a
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00:17:17,760 –> 00:17:21,760
question in chat GPT or Perplexity let’s
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make sure your brand is the one that
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gets mentioned and I think that’s going
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to be a fascinating world of well how do
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00:17:26,559 –> 00:17:31,200
they even do that how do you how do you
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infiltrate the back end to pop up you
456
00:17:31,200 –> 00:17:35,559
know Courtney’s Bakery or whatever it is
457
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well I was
458
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thinking I was thinking about it within
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our own industry because we always talk
460
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about data and we always really go after
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the quirky data and I was curious one
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day and I I put in the prompt you know I
463
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wanted to see if one of our clients
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would pull as the response because we
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had some of the questions that no one
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else had and so I put in a specific
467
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question and it did in fact pull our
468
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previous client and the data that we had
469
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created on their behalf so for us
470
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specifically not on the marketing side
471
00:18:04,080 –> 00:18:09,039
but the PR side it does infiltrate how
472
00:18:07,120 –> 00:18:10,880
we should be thinking about you know the
473
00:18:09,039 –> 00:18:13,520
messaging the talking points the data
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that we’re creating because exactly to
475
00:18:13,520 –> 00:18:18,240
your point if you do have someone with a
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very specific question in an AI platform
477
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and it pulls your client’s data that’s
478
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gold in the future
479
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yeah I was just going to say I was on my
480
00:18:24,799 –> 00:18:29,280
first client call today actually and it
481
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was the first time I heard that a new uh
482
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survey was released and it pulled the
483
00:18:32,160 –> 00:18:35,520
client survey data and it wasn’t like
484
00:18:34,160 –> 00:18:38,320
they didn’t ask for it to pull that
485
00:18:35,520 –> 00:18:39,840
specific data but it organically came up
486
00:18:38,320 –> 00:18:42,240
and they were like that felt
487
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gamechanging because it felt like this
488
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is where people are going to not search
489
00:18:45,039 –> 00:18:50,160
but get organic information in a
490
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conversational way which is very
491
00:18:50,160 –> 00:18:54,640
different than Google SEO has ever been
492
00:18:52,400 –> 00:18:56,559
in the past
493
00:18:54,640 –> 00:18:58,160
break that down again so so tell me so
494
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what so what was the difference just for
495
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people who are listening that like they
496
00:18:59,440 –> 00:19:04,160
want to clearly get like so what was new
497
00:19:01,360 –> 00:19:06,400
what what yeah sure so I’m not exactly
498
00:19:04,160 –> 00:19:09,840
sure what the client data was but
499
00:19:06,400 –> 00:19:12,799
essentially um we were the the client
500
00:19:09,840 –> 00:19:14,880
was asking questions not related to what
501
00:19:12,799 –> 00:19:17,760
they found in their own data but just an
502
00:19:14,880 –> 00:19:20,000
industry type question and it started
503
00:19:17,760 –> 00:19:23,360
feeding their latest report which I
504
00:19:20,000 –> 00:19:25,799
think was less than 24 hours old um back
505
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to them as convers conversational
506
00:19:25,799 –> 00:19:32,559
information with cited sources and it
507
00:19:28,880 –> 00:19:34,080
happens to be their own data um so when
508
00:19:32,559 –> 00:19:36,240
you’re going in and you’re having these
509
00:19:34,080 –> 00:19:38,400
conversations about how do I and this is
510
00:19:36,240 –> 00:19:41,360
oversimplified but how do I bake a
511
00:19:38,400 –> 00:19:44,880
brownie and it pulls something that’s
512
00:19:41,360 –> 00:19:46,240
from you know a top chef for example
513
00:19:44,880 –> 00:19:47,440
that’s great because that’s what people
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are going to look for because they’re
515
00:19:47,440 –> 00:19:50,480
not going to go in and Google that
516
00:19:48,880 –> 00:19:53,120
they’re going to have a conversation
517
00:19:50,480 –> 00:19:55,360
with Chash GPZ first and say “What do I
518
00:19:53,120 –> 00:19:56,720
need to do to make this happen and
519
00:19:55,360 –> 00:19:58,799
whether you know it or not you’re
520
00:19:56,720 –> 00:20:00,480
getting data from somewhere like you’re
521
00:19:58,799 –> 00:20:02,080
getting that information from somewhere
522
00:20:00,480 –> 00:20:04,120
so I really think that’s going to be the
523
00:20:02,080 –> 00:20:07,200
gold mine moving
524
00:20:04,120 –> 00:20:08,960
forward i see i see yeah no I agree i’ve
525
00:20:07,200 –> 00:20:11,679
been using it a lot more now for
526
00:20:08,960 –> 00:20:13,440
questions I have like hey you know my
527
00:20:11,679 –> 00:20:16,080
Sonos speakers at home they’re not
528
00:20:13,440 –> 00:20:17,600
showing up on my app what do I do it’s
529
00:20:16,080 –> 00:20:19,360
I’m not googling it i’m asking AI and
530
00:20:17,600 –> 00:20:20,720
it’ll just say okay like go and do these
531
00:20:19,360 –> 00:20:22,240
things like boom here’s your answer this
532
00:20:20,720 –> 00:20:23,760
is how you’re going to fix it right or
533
00:20:22,240 –> 00:20:25,280
just other there were just something
534
00:20:23,760 –> 00:20:27,039
like okay there’s some tech question I
535
00:20:25,280 –> 00:20:29,200
forget what it was like hey how do I fix
536
00:20:27,039 –> 00:20:30,799
this other issue in my house and it’s
537
00:20:29,200 –> 00:20:32,159
just like okay boom just go do these
538
00:20:30,799 –> 00:20:33,840
things so I’m not googling anything
539
00:20:32,159 –> 00:20:35,840
right so you do wonder how how will
540
00:20:33,840 –> 00:20:37,520
people make money in that situation hey
541
00:20:35,840 –> 00:20:40,240
there’s no ad to click on what’s that
542
00:20:37,520 –> 00:20:41,760
going to look like um I’m I’m curious
543
00:20:40,240 –> 00:20:43,280
though outside of let’s say these large
544
00:20:41,760 –> 00:20:46,480
language models a lot of the the tech
545
00:20:43,280 –> 00:20:49,200
stuff is anyone playing with video
546
00:20:46,480 –> 00:20:50,880
content creation audio content creation
547
00:20:49,200 –> 00:20:51,919
like you know editing tools a lot of
548
00:20:50,880 –> 00:20:53,679
this stuff
549
00:20:51,919 –> 00:20:56,240
A lot of our job is to make sure things
550
00:20:53,679 –> 00:20:58,480
become good video good audio and at some
551
00:20:56,240 –> 00:21:00,159
level a podcast like this AI could do
552
00:20:58,480 –> 00:21:02,080
that podcast right ai could do a news
553
00:21:00,159 –> 00:21:04,960
segment has anyone messed with any of
554
00:21:02,080 –> 00:21:06,960
those kinds of things i would say it
555
00:21:04,960 –> 00:21:08,799
doesn’t necessarily come internally but
556
00:21:06,960 –> 00:21:10,880
we feel these questions a lot with
557
00:21:08,799 –> 00:21:13,520
clients since they’re the ones usually
558
00:21:10,880 –> 00:21:15,760
delivering you know B-roll social media
559
00:21:13,520 –> 00:21:19,280
content things of that nature there’s
560
00:21:15,760 –> 00:21:23,440
questions about is this allowed um would
561
00:21:19,280 –> 00:21:25,600
a reporter or a news anchor think less
562
00:21:23,440 –> 00:21:28,159
of a potential segment with us if we’re
563
00:21:25,600 –> 00:21:30,080
giving AI generated content questions
564
00:21:28,159 –> 00:21:33,360
like that are bubbling up quite often
565
00:21:30,080 –> 00:21:36,799
very specifically we used to work with
566
00:21:33,360 –> 00:21:38,960
um a client and a video vendor on you
567
00:21:36,799 –> 00:21:40,880
know standard you know video content
568
00:21:38,960 –> 00:21:44,159
creation and quotes would be anywhere
569
00:21:40,880 –> 00:21:47,039
between$5 and $10,000 uh and of course
570
00:21:44,159 –> 00:21:50,320
one very smart CEO came around within
571
00:21:47,039 –> 00:21:52,480
about 24 hours and said you know we got
572
00:21:50,320 –> 00:21:55,039
off that brainstorm and I saw the price
573
00:21:52,480 –> 00:21:57,520
quote and I decided to play with AI and
574
00:21:55,039 –> 00:22:01,280
this was the end result and I think it
575
00:21:57,520 –> 00:22:03,520
looks pretty good and honestly we agreed
576
00:22:01,280 –> 00:22:05,600
so there is definitely a world where
577
00:22:03,520 –> 00:22:08,720
that is happening you will have
578
00:22:05,600 –> 00:22:11,360
reporters who do you know think less of
579
00:22:08,720 –> 00:22:13,280
AI generated photos video content they
580
00:22:11,360 –> 00:22:17,039
might go after another story because it
581
00:22:13,280 –> 00:22:19,200
is you know more traditional assets but
582
00:22:17,039 –> 00:22:21,679
with the cost savings that we’re seeing
583
00:22:19,200 –> 00:22:24,240
clients are moving towards that level of
584
00:22:21,679 –> 00:22:25,840
content creation more and more are are
585
00:22:24,240 –> 00:22:28,480
clients saying hey why do I even need a
586
00:22:25,840 –> 00:22:31,039
PR agency I can just ask you know chat
587
00:22:28,480 –> 00:22:33,120
GPT for a PR strategy and reporters to
588
00:22:31,039 –> 00:22:36,720
pitch and write the pitch for me right
589
00:22:33,120 –> 00:22:38,280
like I’m sure people think that
590
00:22:36,720 –> 00:22:41,280
people definitely think that but
591
00:22:38,280 –> 00:22:44,320
surprisingly it hasn’t come up in any of
592
00:22:41,280 –> 00:22:46,799
our conversations um I think people
593
00:22:44,320 –> 00:22:49,679
still realize one you know AI just can’t
594
00:22:46,799 –> 00:22:51,760
be trusted yet with the outputs uh I’ve
595
00:22:49,679 –> 00:22:54,880
seen a lot of errors and and things
596
00:22:51,760 –> 00:22:56,960
going wrong within searches um we’ve
597
00:22:54,880 –> 00:22:59,440
also seen a lot of horror stories hit
598
00:22:56,960 –> 00:23:02,080
media and LinkedIn about you know
599
00:22:59,440 –> 00:23:04,559
pitches gone wrong they strike the wrong
600
00:23:02,080 –> 00:23:07,120
tone they’re really aggressive a whole
601
00:23:04,559 –> 00:23:10,400
agency get gets blacklisted because of a
602
00:23:07,120 –> 00:23:13,360
a pitch that went south um so I think
603
00:23:10,400 –> 00:23:16,400
even clients they still see that right
604
00:23:13,360 –> 00:23:18,240
now AI is not ready um and of course if
605
00:23:16,400 –> 00:23:20,960
you ask me obviously I have skin in the
606
00:23:18,240 –> 00:23:22,720
game but reporters are human and they’re
607
00:23:20,960 –> 00:23:24,640
always going to want to deal with humans
608
00:23:22,720 –> 00:23:26,559
on the other side as well can we
609
00:23:24,640 –> 00:23:29,200
optimize with AI to make it a lot more
610
00:23:26,559 –> 00:23:31,360
efficient definitely i want to word this
611
00:23:29,200 –> 00:23:32,720
very carefully all right let’s let’s
612
00:23:31,360 –> 00:23:34,159
give you time let’s get you make sure
613
00:23:32,720 –> 00:23:35,679
you got your careful words here i want
614
00:23:34,159 –> 00:23:38,960
to word this very carefully but I will
615
00:23:35,679 –> 00:23:41,600
say I think it’s no secret to all of us
616
00:23:38,960 –> 00:23:43,679
that some people just don’t fully
617
00:23:41,600 –> 00:23:45,760
understand PR even if they are engaged
618
00:23:43,679 –> 00:23:48,159
in a PR contract they’re not really sure
619
00:23:45,760 –> 00:23:50,880
what we do or how we do it or why it’s
620
00:23:48,159 –> 00:23:53,039
important and there are other clients on
621
00:23:50,880 –> 00:23:56,559
the flip side that fully understand the
622
00:23:53,039 –> 00:23:59,039
power of PR and what we do and I think
623
00:23:56,559 –> 00:24:00,960
something that cannot be underscored and
624
00:23:59,039 –> 00:24:02,720
this is an I don’t remember where I
625
00:24:00,960 –> 00:24:04,400
think maybe it was the New York Times
626
00:24:02,720 –> 00:24:07,840
but it was a podcast I was listening to
627
00:24:04,400 –> 00:24:11,760
where it says because information is so
628
00:24:07,840 –> 00:24:15,200
readily available now the importance of
629
00:24:11,760 –> 00:24:19,279
relationships and true connection based
630
00:24:15,200 –> 00:24:21,039
on recommendation or word of mouth is
631
00:24:19,279 –> 00:24:25,240
actually going to come become full
632
00:24:21,039 –> 00:24:28,720
circle and become more powerful because
633
00:24:25,240 –> 00:24:31,039
everyone you know broadly speaking has
634
00:24:28,720 –> 00:24:32,960
the same power at their fingertips if
635
00:24:31,039 –> 00:24:34,960
you know how to use it but the
636
00:24:32,960 –> 00:24:38,720
relationships the the one-on-one
637
00:24:34,960 –> 00:24:41,120
connections the the power of the years
638
00:24:38,720 –> 00:24:44,080
of experience that we have collectively
639
00:24:41,120 –> 00:24:47,039
and how to get certain things placed or
640
00:24:44,080 –> 00:24:50,320
pitched or what have you that that’s
641
00:24:47,039 –> 00:24:54,320
never going to be an output that AI can
642
00:24:50,320 –> 00:24:56,880
can comprehend or deliver to you because
643
00:24:54,320 –> 00:25:00,559
that personalized touch will never be
644
00:24:56,880 –> 00:25:03,120
there so I think it’s understanding how
645
00:25:00,559 –> 00:25:05,279
PR works but also understanding there
646
00:25:03,120 –> 00:25:08,159
are just certain things that AI will not
647
00:25:05,279 –> 00:25:11,120
be able to deliver that people inside an
648
00:25:08,159 –> 00:25:13,279
agency will i like that yeah it’s almost
649
00:25:11,120 –> 00:25:14,720
like there’s so much information that
650
00:25:13,279 –> 00:25:17,840
having information doesn’t matter
651
00:25:14,720 –> 00:25:19,360
anymore it’s it’s it’s about the human
652
00:25:17,840 –> 00:25:21,679
touch or like you know like they can’t
653
00:25:19,360 –> 00:25:24,960
replicate your connections your network
654
00:25:21,679 –> 00:25:27,200
your relationships that kind of thing
655
00:25:24,960 –> 00:25:28,880
not yet not yet it’s been fascinating to
656
00:25:27,200 –> 00:25:30,400
watch it’s interesting to watch how more
657
00:25:28,880 –> 00:25:32,320
companies are are taking on initiatives
658
00:25:30,400 –> 00:25:34,400
like what you two are doing there was a
659
00:25:32,320 –> 00:25:36,320
friend of mine works at another agency
660
00:25:34,400 –> 00:25:38,240
and and they got the sense from
661
00:25:36,320 –> 00:25:39,600
management there basically that is we’re
662
00:25:38,240 –> 00:25:41,360
not hiring any entry-level people
663
00:25:39,600 –> 00:25:42,960
anymore like AI is the entry level
664
00:25:41,360 –> 00:25:45,039
person so we’re not going to hire
665
00:25:42,960 –> 00:25:46,480
someone so that they can learn when all
666
00:25:45,039 –> 00:25:47,840
they’re going to do is the stuff that AI
667
00:25:46,480 –> 00:25:49,679
can do so it’s this weird thing now well
668
00:25:47,840 –> 00:25:51,600
how are you going to get experience you
669
00:25:49,679 –> 00:25:52,960
can’t get started
670
00:25:51,600 –> 00:25:54,320
you know they only want veteran people
671
00:25:52,960 –> 00:25:55,760
now because veteran people have
672
00:25:54,320 –> 00:25:57,440
relationships have a network have
673
00:25:55,760 –> 00:25:58,720
connections have all that but just to
674
00:25:57,440 –> 00:26:00,720
come in and say I’ll help you with
675
00:25:58,720 –> 00:26:02,799
information that’s not a job at least
676
00:26:00,720 –> 00:26:04,159
right now
677
00:26:02,799 –> 00:26:05,840
there’s also a lot of conversations
678
00:26:04,159 –> 00:26:07,600
right now about the death of middle
679
00:26:05,840 –> 00:26:09,120
management yeah and I asked the same
680
00:26:07,600 –> 00:26:11,080
question i said okay if you look at the
681
00:26:09,120 –> 00:26:14,320
corporate ladder and you remove middle
682
00:26:11,080 –> 00:26:16,559
management how do we get people to be
683
00:26:14,320 –> 00:26:18,559
above middle management and and no one
684
00:26:16,559 –> 00:26:21,279
has an answer i’ve asked many very
685
00:26:18,559 –> 00:26:22,960
intelligent thought thoughtful people
686
00:26:21,279 –> 00:26:25,440
and no one’s been able to give me
687
00:26:22,960 –> 00:26:27,600
something smart as a response well when
688
00:26:25,440 –> 00:26:29,279
you find out come back we’ll do the
689
00:26:27,600 –> 00:26:30,880
podcast again like Courtney found out
690
00:26:29,279 –> 00:26:32,240
the information she figured out how
691
00:26:30,880 –> 00:26:35,279
we’re going to get up the career ladder
692
00:26:32,240 –> 00:26:36,720
here by jumping from entry level to CEO
693
00:26:35,279 –> 00:26:39,279
i don’t do middle management i just
694
00:26:36,720 –> 00:26:41,279
jumped ahead yeah apparently although
695
00:26:39,279 –> 00:26:43,520
the data is currently showing Jenzie
696
00:26:41,279 –> 00:26:46,320
doesn’t want leadership or sea suite at
697
00:26:43,520 –> 00:26:48,240
all so that’s another conversation yeah
698
00:26:46,320 –> 00:26:49,360
I was going to say as a middle manager
699
00:26:48,240 –> 00:26:51,799
like I would love to have that
700
00:26:49,360 –> 00:26:54,640
conversation let’s figure it out yeah
701
00:26:51,799 –> 00:26:56,480
exactly this is great kyle Cornney
702
00:26:54,640 –> 00:26:59,279
awesome awesome time thank you so much
703
00:26:56,480 –> 00:27:00,880
for sharing your experiences i I need to
704
00:26:59,279 –> 00:27:02,240
do more with perplexity that’s the one
705
00:27:00,880 –> 00:27:03,200
actually I’ve I haven’t done enough with
706
00:27:02,240 –> 00:27:04,480
so it’s interesting to hear what you
707
00:27:03,200 –> 00:27:06,320
guys are saying about it so like okay
708
00:27:04,480 –> 00:27:08,720
that’s my that’s my to-do list here when
709
00:27:06,320 –> 00:27:11,360
we’re done definitely cross reference
710
00:27:08,720 –> 00:27:13,600
and let us know what you define as your
711
00:27:11,360 –> 00:27:15,840
favorite after you experiment for sure
712
00:27:13,600 –> 00:27:17,840
for sure awesome thanks so much Calorny
713
00:27:15,840 –> 00:27:19,520
thank you
714
00:27:17,840 –> 00:27:21,360
thank you to my guest and thanks for
715
00:27:19,520 –> 00:27:23,200
listening subscribe to get the latest
716
00:27:21,360 –> 00:27:26,080
episodes each week and we’ll see you
717
00:27:23,200 –> 00:27:26,080
next time